My thinking is, as long as you're respectful of my right to be the world's most lapsed Lutheran/pagan at heart -- which obvs you are or we wouldn't be friends on here, lol -- then all is right with the world.

I miss a GOOD church, though, man. I really do.

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Definitely, I think that being open-minded about the beliefs of others is one of the most important things.

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This fascinates me in the best of ways. Your explanation makes total sense. I'm glad you can enjoy something this much!

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Haha, thanks! Hope all is well and you're settling in to life in the UK again!

Edited at 2012-02-08 12:04 am (UTC)

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This is beautiful and perfect and I wish more people were like this

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Wow, thank you!

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This is actually REALLY awesome. I wish more people were as open minded as you are.

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Thanks so much!! :-)

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I love the featured pic, Tess. :)

I am actually the exact opposite of you: I am God-believing/fearing, but quite against any congregational churchgoing. It stems from when I was a teenager and was "adult" enough to drive myself to my MI small town church and sit among the adult service. What stopped me from going ultimately was a sermon the Baptist minister--a man I had known since I first started attending his church at three years old--delivered a fiery sermon wherein he blamed the fall of our society on the empowerment of women, minorities and gays; the real scary part was sitting among my fellow congregation--many of whom I had also known since I was young--and hearing folks yell back almost a savage "Amen!" and other things in agreement to the sermon. I was appalled and shocked and left the sermon in the middle of its invective and drove my fifteen year old self home. It was my first witness to some of the hypocrisy in church. The bigger test of faith would come nearly ten years later in college when I roomed with some Pakistani emigrees pre-9/11/2001 who would come down on me for reading a Bible every day in their "devout" Islamic house (hey I was a starving student with little financial options) who had greedy capitalist tastes and prejudice, not to mention "mystery" guests who would often come and go, most of them from the Middle East and spouting anti-American discussion mostly in Urdu but not all of it. I still have a strong faith but I have still not decided to attend a church service again. I suppose as I get older I may revisit that idea someday soon but for now no church services for me.

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Wow, thank you for sharing this story with me. I definitely agree that there can be and are serious flaws in organised religion. I'm sorry that you feel so betrayed though!!

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I have a similar experience as the comment above mine.
I'm a proud roman catholic, grew up in church and for a while I might have even spent more time in there that in my own house, especially during my teenage years.
Then I started to realize how many people around my church weren't being congruent with what they preach and what our religion was about. I still attended church for a while because as you I really enjoyed the sense of being a community but then I realize that it was all a facade. While not everyone is like that, I decided that if I was to workship God it wasn't going to be with the wrong people.
I guess I am between churchs, maybe one day I'll find one that goes with my believes and people are faitfull to what they believe, but who knows.

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I really hope you find somewhere that is a good fit for you!!

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This is lovely. I love your sentiments here. I have let church fall by the wayside but I want to start going again. Do your church friends know you don't believe? Like you I have almost always found recorded Christian music to be sorely lacking, but there is just something amazing about a church atmosphere.

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Many of my church friends know that I don't believe, but I don't think that they all do. It's not that important to me that they know one way or another, to be honest!

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I love churches. The atmosphere is amazing. I'm not Christian, but there's a sense of something when you enter a church.

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So true. I especially get "that feeling" in old holy places!

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This really fascinates me and your explanation makes a lot of sense to me :D

I wish more people are as open minded as you are, dear ♥

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Thank you!!

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You can tell you have Toby preaching at church with that alliteration! He would be proud!
We are also very proud of you, and many people sing your praises. You are of course welcome as is everyone else belief or not, and if more people feel like this when they walk through the door for the first time I would weep with joy. A gorgeous post! EKMCronin

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Thank you very much!

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I love this post so much and I enjoyed reading it a lot.

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Thank you!! I'm glad to hear it!

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Thank you for sharing this insight. I've often wished I could find a community/church the way you have found one. I am not an atheist, but I don't care for organized religion. I admire your ability to put aside the differences and enjoy the company.
~ Lori
www.loreezlane.wordpress.com

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Thank you! I hope you find a place that you feel comfortable with!!

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I'm an atheist, and pretty comfortable with it, but I am so so interested in Christianity and it can be difficult for people to get. I'm passionate about religious art, I have and read the Bible. I love it. I don't go to church, but the few times I've been in church/chapel etc. have been absolutely amazingly beautiful and humbling, so I understand you! The idea of faith is beautiful to me, even though I don't believe myself. :)

Edited at 2012-02-07 08:53 pm (UTC)

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The idea of faith is so beautiful to me, as well!

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This is sweet. When it comes down to it, religion/church doesn't have to be about God. It can be about community, about helping each other, about morality. The New Testament especially is focused more on being a good person than anything else, and a lot of people obviously believe in being a good person without relating it back to any religion. Of course, for some people it is about God, but even then, it's not the only focus. Religion is a multi-faceted thing, and each person takes as much or as little from it as they like - that's the joy of it.

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I agree with this completely, Alexx!

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My friend's parents who are very Catholic gave me the biggest WAT face when I said I would go to church with them (I'm also Atheist)

Glad to see I'm not the only one like this, haha!

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Haha, I hope they let you go along anyways!!

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I was raised in a fundie faith that taught you to preach to people and show them--chapter and verse--why their beliefs were all soaking wet. I used to teach in this faith, in fact. Sunday sermons and all. Until I left and my 'new life' began.

I believe that we didn't come about by accident. But I also believe that if your faith gets you through the day, doesn't cause you to harm others and gets you through the day? Who am I to complain? I guess I'm a deist. I think He (or She) is out there; I don't believe That Person sticks His or Her thumbs and toenails into every moment of our lives. Cuz if they did, I'd ask Him or Her to spend my time with some starving child or suicidal adult instead.

But I totally get you, Tess. Totally.

((((((((((huggggggggggggggggggg)))))))))

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Haha, I agree! And thank you :-)

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so. i just fell inlove with your personality. I wish more people had a view like yours. I can understand where you are coming from completely once explained! :]

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Haha, wow, thank you!! :-)

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Thank you for the words, went to that service while I was in St Andrews!

Regardless of the personal beliefs of some individuals, I agree church should be a place of complete love and inclusion for all. It's needed in the world, there are too few people living that way, and places that effectively do it in community. Most churches fall short on this too which is a turn off for me.

I don't believe you to be a dismissive or offensive person so I hope you won't be taking what I say offensively.... But from what you wrote I'd like to ask you some things.

Don't you think it's a little self fulfilling spending time in a setting of people who all believe something, with you personally and fervently against it (the context of the meeting) in your moral standing?

I mean atheism IS a disbelief of the fundamental aspects of a number of people's lives, in this context , Jesus followers, Christians and/or Christianity?

You enjoy their company, but in your personal viewpoint/pigeon-holing yourself an atheist, you're effectively saying 'I like you as people but you're all brainwashed and/or wrong, even though your Sundays and Thursday's are lovely?'

To be entertaining the notion of this bunch of people having and regularly sharing in something you believe to be right and nice and dare I say it "True" (IE Church meetings and bible studies), shouldn't that also be or mean de-classing yourself a little in terms of your self proclaimed Atheism?

I mean why aren't there super friendly atheist gatherings on a Sunday' A: combating the view of the believers of God as a group of people who are living in 'Truth' ie without God, and B: there's clearly a need if you feel the need to be in a communal and loving environment.

Again, I'm NOT trying to put words in your mouth, I'm very interested in your thoughts on the matter.

Personally I've been 'in faith' of some context or another, and to be honest I've been struggling the last year, and feel now to just be open to all ideas and options now, it's more frustration to me the feeling that I could believe something so 'surely' and now not having that. hard at first but enjoying the 'freedom' now. We'll see where the search continues.

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Don't worry, I'm not remotely offended!

I guess I don't interpret the term "atheist" in a direct or perhaps militant way: simply, in my mind, an atheist is someone who does not believe in God. I like the idea of God, but I just don't think that there is one. This belief is based upon my own life experiences and the world knowledge that I have. I do not think that believing in God makes one any less intelligent or necessarily brain-washed (although as an anthropology student, I have an issue with that term in general, as all socialisation is a form of...) and to the contrary I know many religious people who I consider to be extremely intelligent. I don't consider myself in any way superior because I don't believe. I may be wrong, it is simply that based on my own history I cannot bring myself to believe, nor do I feel a strong desire to.

On the other hand, I don't see anything inherently bad about saying to someone, "I like you, but I think you're wrong." I do it all the time! I have friends who differ from me in several moral and political beliefs outside of religion (which I consider along the same lines) and I think that is a good thing.

I hope that clears up my beliefs a little bit and I would be happy to answer any further questions you may have!

Edited at 2012-02-08 12:52 am (UTC)

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i think the environment and the atmosphere is really what draws people into church. just being there and being happy and celebrating about something (regardless if you believe or not, in your case) makes you feel good.

your church sounds like the church i attend. a band instead of singing hymns and i belt out even if i don't sing well (lol). i do bible study while i'm at school but i do it alone. i haven't found a community quite like the one i have at home and it's fine with me because i know i have it somewhere.

there are definitely flaws within organized religion. and there are ignorant and hateful people but as you said, you can find those types of people anywhere.

basically, as i see it, the basis of any religion is to be good to others. and you can definitely do that without believing in God. it just depends on how you feel about the whole idea of there being a God and what religion, if you do, fits your lifestyle and belief system.

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if you do believe* whoops.

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"I love to be inspired. I love sharing my life with others, and supporting them with their endeavours and being supported in return. These are important aspects of my church experiences and I have not managed to find other groups here at university that fill those roles in my life."

I'm so glad that you are able to be inspired by church, though not God, and that's all right :) I'm not a very religions person, but I do like going to church once in a while, and the chapel at my school is wonderful.

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I'm glad to hear that! I think community is definitely one of the things that inspires me most (possibly something to do with being an anthropology student)!

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I'm in an interesting religious situation myself, in that I'm a practicing Reform Jew teaching in a Catholic school. This means I'm saying Grace, Our Father, crossing myself, and going to Mass, among other things. The school is fully aware I am Jewish, and knew this when I was hired, and told me right up front I should only do what I feel comfortable doing.

What I realized pretty early on was I was the only one who was nervous about my being Jewish in a Catholic school. What I've realized is that when I'm saying these prayers, not only am I doing it because I'm a teacher and this is something my pre-kers came to the school to learn, but also because I feel like that love and peace and all the good things I associate with my religious experiences at my temple can also be found in the church. And this is because of all the loving amazing people who are involved in the school and church. Just because I don't share all the same beliefs as them doesn't mean I can't find the same joy there, if that makes any sense.

Essentially <3 :)

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Ohh, that is very interesting! Thank you for sharing your story! Teaching is, after all, more than anything modelling social behaviours! I'm glad you feel at peace with your job!! :-)

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If you like church, you'll really like heaven - an eternity of doing everything you've outlined above!
Just know that the message of Jesus goes beyond living a moral lifestyle and being kind...
Jesus' greatest message was of love and forgiveness of sins - and free salvation to all who repent. Unless you call on his name and confess that you need him to save you, you've missed the point of church and Christianity altogether.

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It is entirely possible that I have completely missed the point! But in a way, I think I have found my own logic and I am happy with that :-)

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I really appreciate the approach you take here. I wish that more churches were as welcoming and that more Christian and atheists could hang together. I shared this on FB... http://fb.com/kurtwillems

Peace.

Kurt Willems

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Thank you very much! :-)

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As an atheist, and as a gay ex-fundamentalist, I could never set foot in a church again (save for the occasional friend's wedding). It's a bit too much like attending a LARP or Cosplay convention -- except that everyone actually believes they're the animated characters.

That said, I do miss the sense of celebration and community that the church afforded, and I wish that an institution like that existed for atheists, where we could enjoy that same atmosphere without having to put up with the Sky Daddy God nonsense.

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You sound like you have been deeply offended and perhaps personally wronged by a church and so I completely understand an unwillingness to return! I have actually talked to many atheists who express the desire to have a church-like setting, minus the religion. Perhaps the reason that none seems to exist is that the religious aspect is necessary (as an anthropology student, I think this is true!)

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As a Fundamentalist Pastor, who for some reason seems to stress the first syllable, I appreciate your honesty.

The world doesn't need any more trite and overly simplified answers, whether they be atheistic or religious in nature... but that won't happen until all of us are willing to listen to others, and willing to discuss in open and mature fashion.

I don't hold a lot of hope for that, but when I run into people such as yourself there is a glimmer. :)

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Haha, FUNdamentalist, love it! And thank you, I definitely agree.

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